This week in the China Shop, Jennifer Beck joins us to talk Pot stocks and CBD. We asked Jennifer about the hurdles she had to overcome starting Cannabase and the issues with running a cannabis based business in general. We also chatted about the future of marijuana and the chances of it getting legalized. After getting a stock tip from our guest, we then discussed the benefits of CBD. We asked her about her new company, Jihi, and what sets it apart from other CBD businesses. After promising to call us when Jihi IPOs, we challenged our guest to a game of “Which Beck Said it!”
2 Bulls in a China Shop: Recorded on 04/20/21
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Speakers: Kyle Hedman, Daniel Leeson, Jen Beck
K: You are listening to an entertainment program put together by a company called Financial Ineptitude. Anything said on this show is not an endorsement for professional advice. Would you really want to tell a court of law you were suing us because you thought taking financial advice from two idiots on a podcast put out by Financial Ineptitude was a good idea? Really? Clown hat, smiley face.
D: Hello and welcome everyone, step into the shop. The doors are open. We’re kicking them open this morning. Getting everybody inside. So glad you’re here. So glad you’re here. I’m shopkeeper Dan, and with me as always is Kyle, creator financialineptitude.com. How are you doing today, Kyle?
K: Good. Happy 4/20.
D: It’s 4/20 and I’m doing very good. I’m in high spirits, as it were. It’s been been my favorite holiday since since I was a wee lad.
K: I’m more of a St. Patrick’s Day myself.
D: Aye, a bit of the Irish. But you know, they’re both green holidays. So Ithink we’ve got some common ground. And part of our excitement in celebrating this holiday is we have the wonderful, esteemed Jen Beck with us today. How are you doing today, Jen?
JB: I’m great. Thank you for having me.
D: So Jen, why don’t you give us a little bit of context? How did you get involved with Cannabase? And what did Cannabase do?
JB: Yeah. So it was back in 2013. My background was in web online marketing. I worked for some startups in Denver. And my husband is a web developer, a programmer. And I connected with one of my old best friends from high school who had become very successful running a chain of medical marijuana dispensaries. Rec had just passed. And it was like all you could read about in the news, it was really, really exciting. And I went out to dinner with him and just said, you know, what are the technology opportunities in in cannabis? What do you guys need to run your business? And he said, there’s a huge shift about to come up. We were about eight months away at the time from the end of mandatory vertical integration in the Colorado market.
JB: So yeah. So up until this point, you had to have both a grow and a dispensary. And you had to provide 70% of your own product.
JB: So you were allowed to wholesale like 30%. But you had to do the rest of it yourself.
K: What was the reasoning behind that?
JB: I think they were trying to keep the market small. Especially, you know, when it was just medical, it was just a much it was just a much, much smaller operation when it was a medical market. But as we moved into rec, and it was getting bigger, it was time to allow people to be specialists, you know, the growers and the retail dispensaries are very different businesses.
JB: Exactly, exactly. So that was the idea of Cannabase. Because there was only just a little bit of wholesale at the time. It really was like old school drug dealing. I mean, people would just call each other. Man, I got a little this. It’s it’s the best stuff in town. Here’s what we’re charging. You got to get it before it’s gone, I mean.
D: Well, you got to do what you know, right?
JB: Exactly, exactly. I mean, that was the market. And so it was kind of a free for all. And Cannabase we developed to create transparency. We based it kind of on like an eBay where you could see how many views a listing had had.
JB: How many connections there were, what’s average pricing. We we developed what’s called Cannalytics.
D: Oh, nice.
JB: And we had our, Cannalytics got sent out to the market every week. And we’d say here’s what stuff is going for. So nobody could pull a fast one anymore and say, you know, this is the best deal in town when it wasn’t.
K: Well, so you’re like the Amazon of cannabis then is what it sounds like.
JB: We were, we were we were the first and we were the largest for a long time. Yeah.
D: So Cannabase grew to become kind of like the (inaudible). Where did you go from there to selling it and and what I would consider as part of the big success story. Like hey,yeah we built a thing and it was worth money and somebody paid us a bunch of money for it.
JB: Yeah. That was a really exciting part of the story. So you know, there’s a lot of mergers and acquisitions in the cannabis space.
JB: Especially with the publicly traded companies. You know, they’re the ones that use their stock like capital to, you know, to build more assets and and grow their stocks. So Cannabase got swallowed up by a bigger company called Helix TCS, which meant technology compliance security, and their goal was to be this one stop shop to manage your business and we provided that that integrated inventory capabilities. Helix then went on to merge with a company called Biotrack THC, which was like the big beast point of sale system. Point of sale is really important in cannabis, because you have the seed to sale Tracking, you have to track the plant at all stages of its life cycle.
JB: And so it’s really particular technology. Like if it goes down for five minutes, every business in the state flips out. It’s a really, really important part. And so cannabis was rolled into Biotrack, and that was a really great next step for it.
K: That’s kind of interesting. I think aluminum, when I worked for Alcoa, kind of has the same tracking system, like we have to track the metal like all the way through the process for the stuff that’s used in like airplanes. Because if something happens to that plane, you know, 20 years down the line, they need to go back and look and look at all the documentation of how it was melted, how it was shaped, how it was formed.
JB: Yeah, and with cannabis, it’s you know, that’s what the state requires is that they know that you know, where every plant is, at any given moment, you know, can never leave that tracking system.
K: So I did go back through, I found the Helix and the other transactions, but one thing I could never find was was how much money did you get out of that? I couldn’t find the sale price.
JB: So we sold for a you know, kind of a mix. This is how it works with a lot of these, it was a lot of stock. Our investors made all their money back plus cash, they hired all of our employees. And you know, our actual, what we actually made out of it, it has has roller coastered over the last, you know, five years riding the pot stock market. So I have become, you know, I live and breathe the pot stock market, my (inaudible) a lot of stock from that transaction.
D: Wow. So you were really excited there in March, I assume.
JB: We’ve been really excited several times. And we’ve also been really devastated several times. Today has been a particularly bad day. It’s been not like a great 4/20 in the cannabis world.
K: No, not really.
D: Yeah, I stopped, I stopped loading my Ameritrade account. I stopped looking at it after about 9:30 this morning.
K: Yeah, me too.
JB: It is, it is.
D: Yeah. With the democrats controlling the senate, I mean this is probably the best chance that marijuana has had to to being decriminalized. What do you how do you feel the chances of that happening are now?
JB: So my number one focus is safe banking and banking reform. Like everything would change with banking reform.
JB: And we’re seeing some progress there. The Safe Banking Act passed the house yesterday, again. It’s going to need more bipartisan support to actually pass now but I don’t know if full decriminalization or legalization is possible. You know we’ve been riding this for a long time. But I think banking reform would would do most of what we need done in terms of the real barriers that the industry is facing at the moment.
K: Does any of the existing laws prevent these stocks from being, because it looks like most of them are traded over the counter. Does, is there something that prevents them from being listed on like the NASDAQ or the Dow or…
JB: Yes, everything.
JB: So this, the banking thing is a mess. Basically because cannabis is still a controlled substance. You know, banks, we always here won’t even have checking accounts for cannabis businesses. When we were dealing with Cannabase, and we were you know facilitating these huge wholesale transactions, you’d have these 95 pound budtenders throwing a bag with like $40,000 in cash in the car and driving it. I mean it’s, yeah, it’s like it’s really bad. It’s, it’s really, really unsafe primarily. So the safe Banking Act would deal with that it would deal with access to checking, and it would deal with allowing, you know, credit card processing and just removing this cash component. You know, now that we’re in the CBD space, we’re not dealing with that. Banks are a little more friendly, but we still deal with crazy high transaction costs, our payment processing numbers are insane. So these get passed on to the consumer at some level. So banking is huge. But your question about, you know, the publicly traded companies, there’s so many barriers to investment right now. Because banks, institutional investors, and then some of these other exchanges, don’t know if they’re going to be in trouble on some level for money laundering. If they participate with a cannabis business.
D: Oh, shit.
JB: Yeah, so there’s no institutional investment. It’s all mo- I mean, you know, there’s some, but it’s very high risk for the institution.
JB: And that’s the same thing that we’re seeing on the on the exchanges, which is why most American investors have flocked to these, the Canadian companies where it’s legal, and it’s much safer.
K: Okay, that makes a lot more sense. So it’s not necessarily the fact that it’s a controlled substance. It’s more of the fact that it’s the the banking. The banking laws right now are really what’s holding it up.
JB: Yeah, banks are really, really vulnerable if they work with cannabis companies. Same with invest institutional investors.
D: So when you were trying to grow your company, did you have to jump through extra hoops to get capital?
JB: Oh, my gosh. Well, you know, we raised we ended up raising from that that friend I told you about and then other people in our network.
K: Mm hmm.
JB: In terms of like traditional access to capital, there was none. We we got shut down from so many bank accounts. I mean, I think we counted we had like eight or 10 bank accounts we lost, it was just a matter of long you could hold on to them.
K: And you weren’t even like a grower, either. You were just kind of the point of sale facilitator you were…
JB: We didn’t even touch the plant. We were an ancillary non plant touching business. What would happen is the banks would look through your statements, and they would see, you know, who we worked with. We we make money from, you know, advertising with these companies, cannabis companies that pay us for advertising, they pay us, you know, different types of fees. And then the things we purchase were suspicious, you know, the, the swag, we bought, you know it indicated a cannabis company, and that was plenty for them to shut us down.
K: Ah geez.
JB: I think I think the biggest thing that people don’t realize when it comes to the, you know, the unique issues faced by cannabis businesses, are are the, is that banking is like a safety issue. It’s the no access to capital is obviously a huge problem.
JB: But then there’s this 280e. Are you guys familiar with 280e?
K: I’m not.
D: No, no, not at all.
JB: So 280e is from the war on drugs. And there was like a cocaine dealer that came and took his case, I don’t know to the Supreme Court and said that he should be able to deduct his business expenses from his taxes. And it led to this, this law called 280e, where if your business sells a controlled substance, if your business manages a controlled substance, you can’t deduct your business expenses from your taxes.
K: Oh, God.
JB: And this law is upheld. And the IRS is really aggressive about it with licensed cannabis businesses, because it’s really profitable for them. You know, one of the main things that makes states legalize is these tax dollars. And that number would really change in legalized market where all of a sudden280e was no longer relevant. So there have been some adjustments, like businesses can deduct their direct cost of goods, like the shipping and like manufacturing, but that’s it. Anything else you’re taxed on gross instead of net. So between the banking limitations, the barriers to investment, the licensing fees. Oh my god, what businesses go through to be licensed businesses, and then 280e the majority of cannabis businesses are not profitable. It’s a really, really, really challenging market.
K: That makes a lot more sense now why the product is so expensive too.
JB: Yes, yes.
K: Because yeah, comparing to what you used to pay to your you know, your friend in high school, compared to $200 an ou- or the, whatever the numbers are now. Dan, you could probably speak more to that.
D: Well it, you got, also got to realize when we were in high school, the stuff we were getting was not this pharmaceutical grade shit that just blasts you in this outer space.
K: What’s this we we’re talking about?
D: Oh, the collective we of…
K: Oh okay, all right.
D: Pot smoking adolescent ne’er-do-wells.
K: Oh, God.
D: Yeah, yeah, I was in a street gang guys, yeah, we were real tough.
K: I’m totally getting fired.
D: No, I yeah. For the record. I never I don’t think we drank together until we were out of high school.
K: No, I don’t think so.
D: And I’ve never known you to be, you you joined the Navy. You were all mister straight edge.
K: I was never straight edge. I just don’t know, it never was my thing.
D: Mm hmm.
K: Beer is more fun for me.
D: Definitely. Well, yeah, I should say. I’m just mean in regards to marijuana. You’ve never, I’ve never seen you express interest.
K: Every time I try it I always get sick. Because I’m, it’s usually when I’m drunk is when I want to try it. And that’s that’s never a good, good combination.
D: Isn’t isn’t it recreationally legal in Illinois now?
K: It is. They just passed that recently. The pot company that I’m invested in, Cresco Labs has a big footprint here. Are there any marijuana stocks other than the one that you got from your your deal that you you like to invest in Jen?
JB: Well, I want to share it with you, but they had a really terrible day. So it’s hard. They’re really yeah, they’re taking me for a ride right now. I’ve loved Kush, Kush Bottles, KSHB. for years. They’re, and so I’ve always been more educated on the ancillary side of the market, because Cannabase was an ancillary business and Helix and n- Helix has now merged with a company called Forian. So I’ve always been watching the ancillary side.
K: Mm hmm.
JB: The ancillary businesses are interesting because if you watch how they trade, there’s a NASDAQ cannabis composite for North American companies that if you if you overlay, and I’m not like I’m not a stock person, mine is just this ride I’ve been on the last few years. So have patience with my my noviceness here. But If you overlay these ancillary companies on to this NASDAQ cannabis composite, you’ll find that they almost always trade in line with, they follow the patterns of the greater licensed market. But they trade at a much more conservative multiple. You know, a lot of these licensed businesses trade at like 200 300x. So Kush has been fantastic, because they’ve always, first of all, I know them, like I just know the company, I we worked with our people that worked with them. And because these stocks are access to capital, they’re piggy banks, for a lot of these companies, you have to be careful, they do get pretty abused. But the Kush business was always a huge provider of packaging, child resistant packaging for all of the dispensaries, and they’re really good guys, and a really good company. And they’ve always had a ton of revenue, which can be challenging to find in the ancillary space. Which makes sense, because the cannabis businesses don’t have a ton of money leftover.
JB: So Kush has been a leading ancillary business, they used to trade around 4 to 7x when the market was good, and now they’re trading at like 1x. And they’re still following the market. So I want to believe that in a healthier space, they’re going to rebound and go back to you know, 4 or 5x, in which case, I’ll be back to like, they’re at $1 a share now, and I’m hoping they go back to three, three or four, it would be amazing. But (inaudible).
K: Yeah, I just want it to triple, that’s all.
K: I wish all my holdings would do that.
JB: I know, I know. That’s the that’s the pot stock ride, you know. Everything it doubles, it triples, and then it goes back down to nothing. So it’s it’s a ride.
K: Yeah, I think we’ve been saying, Dan, you’ve been seeing that with Sundial and OGI I think right?
D: Yes, yes. I don’t. I don’t I’m not particularly attached to Sundial other than they, I started trading them because they do, they have options. But OGI Organagram I still believe. I believe, it’s been getting hammered despite analysts like raising its price target.
K: That just means tasty dips.
D: Yeah, I have been buying more, but they keep it keeps going down. And you can only do that for so long before you’re like when will this…
JB: It really breaks your heart and like we bought more Kush too, because they’re doing so well. They paid off a ton of debt, they just raised a bunch of money. They are about to undergo a big merger, which will make them the largest ancillary company in the world. Like they’re doing great. They’re follow- they’re following the market down. And so I just have to keep telling myself that they’re following the market. And when the market rebounds a little bit, we’re going to get back to a healthier space, but it beats you up.
K: Well, when you’re long on something too you can’t look at it every day. It just drives you nuts.
D: That’s true, very true. And I am, I remain convinced that throughout this year and the next, the majority of news for pot companies will be positive. Like I really do believe that in my core. I’ve been watching marijuana since the 1990s. I’ve been paying attention to what’s happening in marijuana, when it was a black market drug. It’s it’s never been closer. And the momentum and the rate of change in the past 10 years has been accelerating.
K: Mm hmm.
D: But but we’re not, we’re not there yet. And yeah, so I’ve got that some long term holdings. And I don’t know why I watch them every day, because I’m addicted to the screen. You know, I got to pull up my portfolio. Where is it at?
K: You, you got to separate your long term from your trading stocks, Dan.
D: Well, Ameritrade won’t let me have two views like that.
K: Yeah, well, you can have multiple watch lists. Just don’t look at your actual, your positions. Just look at your watch lists.
D: I can’t do that. That’s too much for me. No, I’ve got I got I want to know that number. I want to know where that number where it’s moving.
K: Yeah, I definitely agree with you, Dan. I mean, this is this is probably as close as I think we’ve ever been to seeing just the changes to make this more of a, god I dont know, what the, what’s the right term? Not just accepted, but embraced.
D: A normalized industry.
D: So so Jen, you mentioned there was legislation that just passed the house that might ease up these banking regulations?
JB: Yeah, so it’s the Safe Banking Act, which would be a huge, huge step that would just allow access to banking, credit cards, traditional financing. And then, you know, hopefully, that would pave the way for more institutional investment and the t- you know investors to be more comfortable. And then we would need some level of legalization or decriminalization to deal with to 280e. And I think if you moved through those pieces, you’re going to have a vastly different market than we have today.
K: Sounds like the 280e is not something that’s going to happen anytime soon, or the decriminalization for that reason. Unless they can figure out a way to increase their tax rates on it to make up for that loss.
JB: Yeah, I mean, they’re they’re definitely not motivated to do it because then they lose a ton of money. But there is a lobby in public opinion in the direction of legalization and it’s like you said we’ve never been closer. It would be great to see if we could, if it could happen in the next you know, 18 months, or you know, while we have control of the House.
K: I mean, oh god, even Oklahoma passed recreational or not recreation. Medical.
D: Medical, yeah.
K: Even Oklahoma.
K: I mean good lord. Everyone loves pot. Republicans just don’t want anyone to know, I guess.
D: Right. That’s the way it feels. Certainly certainly when I’m out and about at a party or out in the wild amongst people of all stripes, the general sentiment is yeah, marijuana is fine. Yeah, you’re okay, whatever we don’t care.
JB: I mean you’re telling me. And then we got into CBD, which after you know, being in marijuana for seven years, I thought we were do- it was so vanilla, you know, just the most accepted thing in the world.
JB: And being out there still people are like, okay well, you know, this shop is more liberal. So they’re, you know, they’re more interested in carrying, and there’s still people that are really uncomfortable with CBD and then, which that was shocking to me. I had no idea that people were still uncomfortable with it.
K: I meant to ask you if CBD has the same difficulties or barriers as as marijuana does because CBD doesn’t have any of the psychedelics, right? It’s not, is it controlled too or is it is it a lot more lax?
JB: No, so it’s a little bit gray but CBD is much easier. So CBD, when it comes from the hemp plant, I mean, it’s in the cannabis plant. But when cannabis sativa is grown with less than .3% THC, THC being the psychoactive component of the cannabis plant, then it’s industrial hemp. And under the 2018 Farm Bill, industrial hemp is legal to cultivate and sell without a license across the country. So our CBD is all phytocannabinoid rich hemp oil, which is federally legal. You still have, you know, these high payment processing rates, you have kind of this a little bit of an overlap just because banking, people are still unsure, they’re uncertain. There’s a lot of advertising restrictions. CBD can’t be advertised on Instagram or Facebook or Google AdWords. And then you’ve got you know, public opinion and education you have to work through but CBD is completely non-psychoactive. And no, you’re not dealing with any anything near what the licensed businesses are dealing with.
D: I remember when that 2018 Farm Bill passed, I was able to start buying pounds of CBD from Colorado.
JB: Why yeah, what what were you doing? Why were you buying pounds of CBD?
D: Well, I what I was attempting to do at the time was to quit smoking tobacco. I was rolling filtered CBD cigarettes.
K: Ah, okay,
JB: Did it work? Did it help?
D: It did help, but it didn’t work.
D: Well, I mean, it helped in that light like it it scratches the itch of wanting to have a cigarette in my fingers, and wanting to have smoke in my mouth. But I wasn’t using any kind of nicotine replacement therapy. So I always found eventually I would crack and be like, I can’t take these CBD cigarettes anymore. Give me nicotine..
JB: Yeah, I feel like it would feed the craving like like non-alcoholic wine. I, that has never worked for me.
K: Why would you want that?
JB: I don’t know. It’s (inaudible) calories.
K: It’s just grape juice, isn’t it?
D: But I will say I do have some friends who, I haven’t done any research. But I recently had a friend claim that smoking CBD will bring you down from the psychoactive effects of marijuana. And he uses it. Yeah, he uses it if he feels like if he’s too high, he can start smoking (inaudible). That has not been my experience. I like to mix them together and I feel like it makes me way more high.
JB: And that’s what I’ve kind of seen in the research you know, once you start getting into the synergistic effects between different cannabinoids like THC and CBD, it gets pretty complicated on a scientific level. But I have seen that it it more enhances THC. But that’s interesting. I’m not, I don’t know.
K: Well let me, let me ask you this, Jen. Which which strain would you recommend for somebody who has trouble telling the difference between like, say 1:30 and 2:00? Which which pot strain would make somebody more timely?
JB: I would say probably do the CBD blend. I’d probably go with that.
D: Oh, wow, Kyle, who do you know that could Is that pot strain?
K: I don’t know.
D: Sounds like you’ve got somebody in mind, like you might give them a gift.
K: I’m just saying the guy who doesn’t smoke pot is usually on time here.
D: I yeah, I’ll own it. I’m not the most punctual man in the world.
D: You’re half Italian.
D: Punctual is not the right word. It’s, I write down the time because my, like the time for this interview call was written correctly in my Google Calendar. Just every time I looked at it, I saw 2:00instead of 1:30. I don’t know why.
JB: Are you dyslexic?
D: No, no.
K: There’s no two in there.
JB: No I know. Just like when he said anytime I look at it, I see different numbers. Maybe something’s flipping around.
D: It’s called (inaudible).
K: There you go. That’s gonna be a clip.
D: No, sadly, it’s my own lazy arrogance, where I’ll read the first two words and assume I know what the rest says, and stop reading it.
K: I do that with my wife too. Yeah, here, the first couple sentences and then like, I know what she means. And then I’ll start arguing with her on the point that she’s, like when we’re talking about the same thing. Drives her nuts.
D: Right right.
K: Why are you arguing? That’s not what I asked.
D: Oh, that’s awesome.
K: Oh, what did you say?
D: Right? Oh, well so Jen, tell us a little bit about what you’re doing now. Other than watching pot stocks go up and down week by week.
JB: Oh, I’m not. Yeah, so we launched Jihi, a few months ago. We’ve been working on it though, for a couple of years. Jihi, the concept was that CBD is much more effective if it’s used consistently and over time. And also there’s various ways of ingesting CBD that service different layers, you could say, of the endocannabinoid system. So topical CBD interacts in the dermis, in the skin in a really specific way. Versus if you were to vape or do a tincture where it goes more into the central nervous system in the brain and it affects a different set of organs and processes. So CBD is incredible for helping the body maintain balance and find homeostasis in the endocannabinoid systems all over the body. But we wanted to create a product that really interacted with the synergistic effects of CBD in a way that was enduring in a way that would become habitual in a way that would be really effective. What we saw going coming into the market is that there were a few major manufacturers of CBD products and the majority of what’s out there, I it to me, it looks like about 90% are white labeled, so they’re, you know, the same lotions coming from the same manufacturer, and then everybody’s just branding, and it’s kind of a race to the bottom in terms of quality and just how much CBD can you pump into this, this lotion? So, so we worked with a really incredible R&D team, and we developed these, these high performance skin and body care products. We have a face serum. It’s a face serum that you would use if it didn’t have CBD in it. It’s an incredible hyaluronic acid, vitamin rich, antioxidant rich, non comedogenic face serum that also has 250 milligrams broad spectrum CBD.
K: So what’s the benefit of the CBD in there? What does that actually do?
JB: Yeah, so CBD in the skin is a really powerful ingredient. It interacts in the dermis, in the skin, to help regulate oil production, increase skin cell turnover. It’s a rich antioxidant, so a lot of, and it, and it reduces inflammation. A lot of the endocannabinoid receptors are in the immune cells, and so it it interacts with, reducing inflammation. So using CBD on the skin can help really really soften the effects of acne, any sort of irritated skin condition while reducing oil and antioxidants. It’s a really powerful…
K: What about like arthritis?
JB: Arthritis? So arthritis is really interesting. I actually have some issues with my joints in my hands. I thought I had arthritis. I’m pretty young for arthritis. But turns out that the bones in my hands are too small for my hands, and it creates like a torque issue. So when I’m twisting and stuff, I’m putting too much pressure on the joints.
JB: Yeah, so I was having an enormous amount of hand pain, waking up with kind of these dinosaur claws and not being able to move them. And that is when we were in the R&D process for our balm, our body balm. So it was a you know, it was a blessing in disguise, I guess. And our body balm is incredible. It has 500 milligrams of CBD isolate, which works to reduce inflammation and also helps kind of dull the pain sensation and then it also has Arnica menthol, a bunch of cooling ingredients and more natural pain solutions in addition to 19 oils and butters, so there’s no water, no fillers. It’s this really deeply hydrating restorative balm. So if you have irritated skin, hot skin, eczema, itchy, dry, or swollen, it’ll cool and soothe and calm the whole area.
K: Interesting. Do you have any samples?
JB: I do I do. I’d love to give you a sample.
K: Can you ship them across state lines?
JB: I definitely, CBD is safe to send across state lines. I do have samples. The balm is phenomenal. I’m addicted to it. Same with the serum. Our last product that is an orabl- an oral, an oraabl- an oral CBD. Because that does interact with different components of the body. Instead of just being in that skin that surface layer, it moves into more of the brain, spinal cord where you’re looking at more regulatory processes. Like, early evidence suggests it can help with sleep wake cycle, it can help with mood, it can help with memory. So we developed what is amazing it’s a sleep tincture. A dose of it is a great daily dosage of CBD, 25 milligrams, it goes under the tongue which makes it highly bioavailable, it goes into the bloodstream. And we it we also have melatonin, California poppies, skullcap, camomile. So these other sleep promoting ingredients, so you take it a couple hours before bed, and it really naturally relaxes you and helps you go into a nice sleep. But if you use it daily, and you use it over time, the CBD gets to work, and it really starts to restore a much deeper, healthier natural sleep pattern with more wakefulness during the day and falling asleep easier at night and being able to stay asleep at night. So it’s an incredible product and it blends the best of the immediate effects of CBD with that long term usage.
D: So so that is a full spectrum CBD in the in the serum?
JB: The serum and the tincture are both broad spectrum, so trace amounts of THC but it has CBD and then the terpenes and flavonoids and essential oils, all these other components of the plant. And then in our body balm we use CBD isolate, just because there is that very, very, very, very, very trace amount of THC in the broad spectrum. It’s indetectable, I would be highly surprised if somebody could ever use enough of the product to have THC show up in their bloodstream.
D: Way too much money.
JB: Way too much money (inaudible) at that point. But we did want to design the balm for athletes and so they didn’t have to worry at all about THC being in the equation. And so for our balm, it’s a THC isolate or, it’s a t- a CBD isolate.
D: Oh, no, I ask because I use marijuana to control epilepsy. And I know that in Colorado, some of this, the tinctures tinctures have been used to do exactly that. But, but it involves the full spectrum. But I’ve had a personal problem in finding companies. This is this may sound ridiculous to you, but you do or maybe not because you’re still in the industry, that have a consistent product where when I when I when I buy it, oh, hey, this is working for me. And then like I get the next jo-, by the time I’m at the, in the third bottle. It’s it’s not working, like I’m not feeling the same. It’s like it’s a whole new batch and a whole new different level of all the different CBD stuff.
JB: That’s so interesting. And yeah, a lot of it does have to do with manufacturing, I mean, CBD you know, it’s very similar to cannabis and a lot of the cannabis industry in a lot of ways but in one area, it’s really different is that the cannabis industry is heavily heavily regulated , and CBD is not. And so people are growing and extracting and making these home brewed products. You’ve either kind of got this white labeled, kind of these these products that are not very high quality, and then they’re just throwing a bunch of CBD in it. That’s one side. And on the other side, you have some interesting custom blends and more thoughtful, more mindful products, but they’re being kind of home brewed. And that’s that what you’re talking about. And then you’re looking at quality, you’re looking at safety, you’re looking at residual solvents, you’ve got other issues. So for us, it was important to have this middle ground where we worked with a really high end lab team, a really high end manufacturer, we wanted that consistency that you would expect from a high end spa grade skin and body care product. Not you know, a little CBD startup.
K: Yeah that’s, consistency has got to be one of the number one things when you’re trying to sell any product. You need to get, be able to get the same thing every time you order it right?
JB: Consistency and safety. You know safety in terms of that there’s again no residual solvents that it’s you know, stable and that it has a good shelf life, that it’s being made in a really clean environment. Especially right now, it’s not the best time to be buying something that somebody is, you know been making in their kitchen.
K: Sounds like the CBD industry has kind of got some of the same issues that, like the supplements do. Like the regulation of the supplements are just like almost nonexistent, like anybody can get together and like just throw in whatever mix of different ingredients, slap a supplement label on it, and then throw it on shelf, and there you go.
JB: Yeah, yeah. And we’re really waiting for that guidance from the FDA, which, which does seem like it’s coming, to say what, yeah, what i- what’s going to be the guidelines to guide CBD businesses. And I think that will eliminate a heavy percentage of the noise that’s out there right now, because I don’t think, there are a lot of businesses that would not be compliant.
K: Has the FDA been evaluating any of the claims that the CBD industry…
JB: Yeah yeah, for sure
K: Uses the the products for?
JB: Absolutely, the FDA is really watching these claims. And it’s really important to know, you know, we know there’s an endocannabinoid system, we know where these receptors are, we can see how CBD interacts with the receptors and what that does on a mechanical level. But in terms of saying what does that do, that’s what I said, I think early evidence suggests that it impacts our sleep wake cycle. I mean, we have small studies on rats, we have mountains of anecdotal evidence. We obviously have customers that come back and say it’s working. You know, but that’s what we’re running on right now. These are not peer reviewed studies that the FDA is okay with. So we’re, you know there are companies that say this will help with COVID, or this will, you can’t do that, we wouldn’t know that. And we really don’t know, all of it is anecdotal, small studies.
JB: Early data suggests, period. But it’s worth trying and experimenting. And I think the most important thing for someone experimenting with it, is to know that it’s not a drug like smoking pot, where you’re going to feel that psychoactive effect immediately, and you’re going to have a great time. CBD, the effects of it, the way it works, is it actually helps your body build up its natural cannabinoids. We have these natural cannabinoids in our body. That there’s these receptors for everywhere. And the actual cannabinoids are named after, they were named for bliss, the bliss molecule Anandamide, which comes from the Sanskrit word for bliss, because that was the effects on the body. And what CBD does is it helps prevent the degradation of these cannabinoids. It also helps prevent the re-uptake of these cannabinoids. And it seems to modify the receptors in a way so that they are less likely to become overstimulated or under stimulated. So it helps your body restore more abundant levels of your natural cannabinoids. And you know less likely to become under overstimulated., and that’s what leads to this balancing effect. But that takes time. That’s why I say use the products for 30 days. And creating products that taste good smell good, are great to use and have immediate effects without the CBD, we believed was really important in terms of integrating it into a routine and making the results you know, making it powerful.
K: I tell you there’s not many companies telling, when somebody sells snake oil they always promise immediate results, right?
D: Right right.
K: They don’t normally say 30 days, you need to give this some time to actually do its job.
JB: Yeah, and and we created tools. We have these, these like bullet journals, these tools on our website where you can download them and actually track symptoms, whether it’s exercise, recovery, sleep, skin. You can track kind of the lifestyle habits that contribute to these results because of course if you’re totally abusing yourself and then take some CBD, it’s probably not going to help. So it’s the lifestyle component. And it allows you to track symptoms over 30 days and then integrate our products and see how that affects you, because CBD does affect everyone differently, and it does take time. And we want to provide resources for people to integrate it in their life in a way that works for them and then to also identify if it doesn’t work for them.
D: Yeah, I I remember, I think it was 2014 when I had first gotten a medical card in Arizona. I met a ma- older man in the dispensary who was a Vietnam vet who had his card. He didn’t like to get high, he didn’t smoke. He just had his card to go in and get CBD balm for his arthritis, because it was it was the only place that, in town that he could consistently get it. And it was, I don’t even remember who was making the time. That’s, but before then I never thought CBD had much of a value. You know I was just some stupid little pothead like oh, I like the THC, let me get high. That conversation like perked my ears up, I was like wait. So so I’ve always been had an eye out and and it really does seem to me to be the the drug of many uses, you know. It’s just s- be-becuase there’s such a wide variety of the cannabinoids, and the sy- is the way the system works in our body. But I definitely too, I get turned off when they’re like, yeah, marijuana will shrink that tumor, and cure your cancer, and put a bounce in your step and a smile on your face.
K: Yeah, you gotta just be honest with what it can do.
D: I wouldn’t go that far.
K: God, it’s just like the war on drugs, where you smoke marijuana and you’ll end up dead with heroin needles sticking out of your arm. We just swung to the other side.
JB: Yeah, it’s schedule one, and like fentanyl is schedule two. It’s crazy.
D: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
K: Fentanyl is insane.
JB: Fentanyl is insane. Like it will kill you really fast.
K: Yes yes, it does.
D: Really, really fast. Yes, and a marijuana overdose will put you to sleep…
D: And will have you wake up the next morning maybe a little groggy, but probably refreshed.
K: I end up staring in the mirror trying to just figure out if I’m breathing.
D: What’s crazy to me is is sometimes I’ll come across a strain that just perks me right up like coffee, like I couldn’t smoke it.
K: Mm hmm.
D: That’s how I know that there’s a lot of synergistic and a lot of depth to the effects of this plant.
K: Oh, yeah, for sure.
D: The more I’ve learned, the more I’ve learned about it, the more I find that it is the CBDs and CBD-G CBD-Gs, and and all of the non-psychoactive ones seem to be having the gre- (inaudible)…
JB: Absolutely, from a therapeutic perspective, yeah.. There’s there’s so much to discover. And it is exciting to see, it is easy to think that CBD is just a fad, or that it’s just people trying to make money off of, you know, a buzz and a newly legalized ingredient.
D: Mm hmm.
JB: But when it’s used correctly, and with the right expectations, and in formulas that are supportive, and are high performance, I mean, if you, you’re trying on anti-inflammatory effect, and you put it in something that has a lot of inflammation promoting ingredients, something that’s, are not good for you, it’s probably not going to help.
JB: But you know, that’s why like our line is really carefully curated with, there’s the face serum, and it can, people do come and say like, my acne is better for the first time in my adult life. This is unbelievable. That’s amazing.
D: That’s got to feel great.
JB: Yeah, it’s huge. I mean, it’s huge to help people, to give them that tool. And it’s really, really, really effective. And like you were saying, with the the man you met with the pain balm. There’s nothing like this stuff. It took us over a year to get to a version of the balm that I could start moving my hands again in the morning. I mean, and it, I knew, I kept getting so frustrated with the pain and being like, I’m too young for this, what is wrong with me? But it was like okay, this is a really, really, really good tool to evaluate the products that we’re building.
D: Right? Your personal pain, yeah.
JB : It was great. And like and rubbing it, I have a bad knee, and you know put it on my knee after I work out. And it makes a huge, huge, huge difference in terms of how I feel, how quickly I recover, the health of my joints. I mean, it’s an amazing product. So it’s really about just, you know, education, and then getting people to try it and then getting them to try it for a while. And if now it doesn’t work for you, that’s totally fine. But a lot of people are blown away at that stage in the process.
K: So how do I invest in it?
JB: Well you know, we can talk, you just let me know.
K: Yeah, when are you getting listed on the stock m- stock exchange?
JB: I know, I think that would be a really great next step.
JB: I do, yeah.
D: So this is, so this is Jihi, this is J-I-H-I if wanted to like search on the internet to find out more about you guys. Where would I go?
JB: Yeah, Jihi is J-I-H-I.com. Jihi is a really fun word, it’s a Japanese word for compassion. And ji means to spread joy, and hi means to ease pain. So it was a…
JB: A wonderful n- yeah.
D: Nailed it.
JB: Yeah, thanks. And it kind of sounds like laughter. Jihi, it’s such a happy word.
JB: Yes Jihi.
K: Oh, like a Japanese laugh.
D: Right, right? Like some like some blushing embarrassed girl in an anime, Jihi Jihi.
K: Well I was actually thinking of Kenny when he pretended to be the Japanese princess on South Park.
JB: Yeah, I I don’t know where South Park is right now. Like I just can’t imagine a time where we’ve ever needed it more.
K: Yeah, they kind of disappeared, didn’t they?
JB: Yeah, right around coronavirus, Trump, pandemic, like come on guys.
K: So how realistic was Randy’s depiction of starting his weed farm?
JB: It wasn’t bad, I’m going to be honest with you. Tegrity Farms was, I think I know a few Tegrity Farms. It’s got tegrity. It’s got tegrity.
K: I love Towely when he’s sampling. Yep, that’s some good shit. Alright, Dan, you got any, any other questions? I think we covered most of mine.
D: Yes. So I can email you my, my address and I can try out all the serum? I’m gonna get drunk off CBD serum.
JB: Yes, I would love that, absolutely. We have that, we have samples available on the website, but I’m happy to send them to you if you want to send me your address. We don’t do samples of the tincture, for obvious reasons, but.
K: Is that the one that puts you to sleep or?
K: Oh, dang it. That’s the one I would have been…
D: Oh, I’ll just go on your website and buy it. I’ve tried, I’ve tried at least six or seven different brands. Because like, like I said, I do have a legit medical purpose. Like if I’m smoking every few days, at the least, I don’t have any problems with epilepsy. And I would, I’ve tried to medically handle that with CBD tinctures in the past. I’ve even tried to make my own par- you know, when I stopped smoking that CBD, th- all that CBD I bought, I was like well, I’ll cook up my own tincture, see how that goes. But speaking with you, I feel really confident that you do have a consistent product where if I purchase one bottle, it’s going to be the same as the next bottle I purchase. And that’s something that I literally hadn’t, as a consumer been unable to find in the CBD industry. At least in Tucson.
K: Mm hmm.
JB: I’m so happy we’ve met and yes, I would love that. You will get a consistent product with us. And I would love to hear how it works for you and how it compares to the other things you’ve tried.
D: Yeah, yeah. That’s fantastic. That’s that’s great.
K: I think we see some stories on your website, I’m browsing through it right now. So I’m sure Dan wouldn’t mind writing something up for you.
D: Yes, absolutely.
K: Only if it’s good, though. Right, Dan?
D: This CBD tincture is the worst I’ve ever had. Don’t believe a word Jen Beck says, she’s a huckster.
JB: I really, you know what, you can tell me your feedback if it’s bad, because I’m really confident you’re gonna love it. And I also think that the flavor, you’re going to be incredibly impressed with. You know, we did a lot of sampling ourselves during the product development process, and the, a lot of the tinctures out there are disgusting, they’re really gross.
D: Yes, yes.
JB: And ours is amazing. It’s clear, it has a slightly sweet clove orange flavor. It’s delicious.
JB: And it’s, here is the secret trick with our tincture. So take it, like a dropper a couple hours before bed. For me this is how I cut down on drinking. I replace my second glass of wine with the tincture, it’s been really good for me. Um, and then you keep it on your nightstand and if you have a middle night wake up, and I have a toddler so there’s a lot of those.
K: Mm hmm.
JB: You can do another little half drop and 20 minutes later you’ll go back to sleep. It has saved my life.
K: I might be checking that one out too.
D: Well, I don’t know about replacing my second drink. I see myself adding a dropper to my second drink.
K: Oh, that’s smart.
JB: You can also do that. I mean especially today, having this Kush situation on 4/20. Just throw it in.
D: This yeah, let’s let’s pick up this wine. There we go.
JB: Add a little booster.
K: There you go.
D: That’s your that’s your next product line, right? Your your your wine booster?
JB: My cocktail booster? I’m very excited about that idea, actually.
K: CBD mixers?
JB: Well you know, you guys can become investors, we can put together the cocktails. It’ll be perfect.
K: Yeah, nice.
D: All right. You’ve got my 100 bucks to invest.
JB: All right. That sounds great.
K: All right, should we do some, should we do a little game?
K: All right, Jen, are you familiar with Jeff Beck and Glenn Beck? Do you know who they are?
JB: My husband is going to be so mad when he listens to this. I know I’ve heard of Jeff Beck.. He’s a guitar player.
K: Yeah, the guy who’s saying that loser song.
JB: Don’t know that but I know the guitar. Yes. Okay.
K: Dan, do you want to…
D: Kyle Kyle. Jeff Beck is a very famous guitarist who was part of the Birds. And he had the Jeff Beck group, which Rod Stewart sang for. Beck Is the popular…
K: Beck, oh, I thought it was Jeff Beck. Okay, I mixed those up. Alright, well, you know more than I do.
JB: It’s okay, it’s only my name. I know it’s hard.
K: All right. Glenn Beck is the the guy, the crazy republican that was on Fox News all those years, spouting off crazy conspiracy theories. So I’m gonna read you some quotes and you have to tell me whether it was Jeff Beck or Glenn beck that said it.
K: All right. You ready?
K: All right. The first one here. “Oh, the tragedy and anguish. You just got to rage against the appliance, man. The toast is burning, and you just got to rip it out and free it before it fills the house with smoke. Rage against the toaster.”
JB: Oh my god.
K: Who said it?
K: Nice. One for one.
D: Oh, ding ding ding ding ding. All right, so she gets a point.
K: All right, next one. “I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could.”
K: Ding ding ding. That’s the tame one too, I didn’t even read the one about 9/11.
D: Oh, shit.
K: All right, here’s the next one. “Eugenics, in case you don’t know what eugenics led us to, the final solution, a master race, a perfect person. The stuff that we’re facing is absolutely frightening.”
JB: What a horrible guy.
K: All right.
D: Oh, yeah, he’s he’s fun.
K: How about this? Let’s see, “About a year ago, I started seeing these ads in the paper for laser vaginal rejuvenation. First, it was a little ad, next week, it was twice as big. And after a month, it was a full page ad. It just took over. Something in that triggered a bunch of associations and projections. Like what kind of activities do you have to engage in to get to the point where you need to bring a laser into the equation?”
K: Nope, that was Jeff Beck.
K: All right, last one, last one. “For the second time in a row, I ate all the bacon while making the rest of the meal.”
K: That was actually you on Twitter in 2015.
JB: That was me? What did I say?
K: “For the second time in a row, I ate all the bacon while making the rest of the meal.”
JB: Yeah, that sounds about right. I’ve been in the pot industry a long time.
K: Three out of five thought, that’s, I think that’s the best any of our guests have done at any of our fun stuff.
JB: That’s, has anyone ever gotten themselves? That they’re, known that they said something?
K: What’s that?
JB: Has anyone else ever known that it was them behind the quote?
K: Oh, no, we we mix it up. I was originally going to try and do is it a fruit or is it a pot strain? But the pot names were way too, not fruit sounding?
JB: Well, that’s what I get for tweeting stuff like that.
D: Yeah, yeah.
K: All right.
D: Oh, Twitter never goes away.
JB: I know.
K: I knew that would be a good one.
JB: I’m blushing.
K: Because you haven’t looked at it in like six years.
JB: I’m blushing. Yep, yep, that was, all right, then.
D: Thank you so much for being on here with us, Jen. This has been such a good time.
K: Yeah, I learned a lot.
JB: You guys are awesome. This was a really awesome way to spend 4/20, thank you.
K: Oh, tha- and thanks for the tip on KSHB, I’ll be adding that to my watch list.
JB: Oh my god. If they keep going down, don’t bring it up with me. But if they go back up…
K: That’s what you want. It’s cheap now.
JB: It is cheap. Buy the dip. Buy the dip.
K: Buy the dip.
JB: They’re on the market. They’re following the market, so ev- when everything legalizes and it goes through the roof, we’re gonna be rich.
K: Damn right.
D: I put in a buy order for tomorrow while we were talking.
K: I knew it.
JB: That’s awesome.
K: I heard you clicking.
JB: And and (inaudible). I’ve been following them for years, they’re a great company. So I’m really rooting for them. I hope you guys, I hope he makes a lot of money on it.
K: I like the idea of just playing the other side of it. The suppliers. It’s kind of like the the gold rush in San Francisco.
D: Yeah, the gold rush.
K: The people trying to mine the gold were the ones going broke, but the guy selling the shovels and picks made a fucking killing.
JB: Yeah, and their revenue is great. They’re trading at like 1.5x right now on a, like a hundred and (inaudible).
K: Oh, that’s brilliant.
JB: Revenue. I mean, they’re doing fantastic. They just paid off a ton of debt. They’ve got this great merger coming up. So I don’t know. I don’t know why today had to be so shitty, oh, excuse me.
K: That happens.
JB: Can I say that?
D: Yeah, you say whatever you want on our podcast.
JB: Okay, great, thank you.
D: Yeah. When it’s a shitty day, we got to be able to call it a shitty day, that’s not (inaudible).
K: Yeah. All right, Dan, let’s wrap this up.
K: We need to let our guest get back to her life.
D: Yes yes yes. Thanks again, Jen. Everybody, please, we’ll have a link. Go check out jihi.com. They’ve got some wonderful products over there. And just just a phenomenal growing industry. Can’t wait until, I can’t wait till Jihi has got a public stock ticker so I can buy some shares.
K: Yep. When she IPOs. hopefully she’ll call us back.
JB: I promise.
JB: I promise, I’ll reach out.
D: Woo hoo. Yeah, this has been been fantastic. And, you know, we hate to shut down the shop and kick you all out. But the good news is, is we’re coming back soon. Stick around. We’ll have another exciting episode coming up for you this Saturday. Until then, happy trades.
K: Bye, folks.
D: Two Bulls in a china shop is an entertainment program and all thoughts and opinions expressed in the show belong to the hosts and not of any company. They are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual, or on any specific security or investment product. It is only intended to provide entertainment about stocks and the financial industry of trading. If you make trades based on what you hear in the show, you assume all risks for those trades.
Who is Jennifer Beck?
Jennifer Beck is a seasoned entrepreneur with deep experience in the emerging legal cannabis and hemp market. Her technology company Cannabase was founded in 2013 as the first and largest online wholesale marketplace connecting the legal cannabis market. During her time with Cannabase, she served for 2 years as the Vice Chair of the Colorado Cannabis Chamber of Commerce and was involved with advocacy for responsible legalization.
After selling Cannabase in 2016 to Helix Technologies (where Cannabase was rolled into leading cannabis seed-to-sale tracker BioTrack THC), Jennifer co-founded Jihi with a mission to help high performing people sleep better, recover faster, and rejuvenate from the inside out. Jihi’s proprietary, clean and highly functional CBD skin and body care was founded on the idea of “Self-Centered Wellness” – coming within to find our authenticity, our joy and our power – and compassion for ourselves and the earth. Jennifer has been featured on Bloomberg Radio, Forbes, Green Entrepreneur, Marijuana Business Daily and more.
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